tent/hammock maintainence questions...

[stealth]

Hey guys, I've been car-camping plenty of times, and cycle camping a bit.  I'm wanting to get more serious about camping, though, and I've got a few questions about camping gear.  What, if anything, do you guys do when buying new gear like tents?  I'm considering some equipment, but I want it to last a very long time.  One thought I'm having would be to get some nylon thread, and reinforce every stitch on my gear.

So do you do anything to new gear, like extra stitching, waterproofing, or anything else?

[gunny]

what extra you need to do depends on the quality of the gear you have, my tent for example has lasted 5 years of hard use in weather from the desert sun to a 24 inch snowfall over night in Algonquin park in January. A good tent needs basic maintenance, that being kept clean when put away for the season. There is some debate as to whether or not to roll it up our just stuff it in the stuff sack, I just stuff mine in the stuff sack. I check seams at the start of the season, or before I plan on using it. A bit of seam sealer if it needs it. So far I've not had to use any myself.

Never put a tent up wet unless you know for sure your gonna be getting it back out very shortly.{like the next camp site down the road}. NEVER wear shoes in a tent, it tears the floor up. ALWAYS use a ground sheet under your tent. Use a small wisk broom to clean the dragged in debris out of the tent before you pack it up. Use soap on the zippers. NEVER set up in direct sunlight if at all possible, if you have to, use a cheap poly tarp to cover it if your gonna be there a few days, nylon does not like UV light.

other than those tips, I've never had to modify camping gear, quality is everything they say. You can either spend it now, or later, but the good stuff pays for itself.

[stealth]

Use soap on the zippers. NEVER set up in direct sunlight if at all possible, if you have to, use a cheap poly tarp to cover it if your gonna be there a few days, nylon does not like UV light.

soap on the zippers?  that's a new one on me.  does that keep the zipper from binding?  add to its lifespan?

also, I had *never* heard about nylon and UV light.  is that why the fabric of my last tent got so brittle?  I kept it clean, waterproofed the seams, checked all my seams for loose threads, kept the floor clean, and never ever wore my shoes inside.  after about year of heavy (nearly daily use), the nylon got to where you could tear it by running your finger across it.  when i noticed this, I was about to start making repairs, when i noticed the entire outer shell was brittle and "dried out".  was that because because i tended to use it heavily in bright sunlight?

[gunny]

soap or parriffin works excellent as a lube for zippers, yep direct sun kills a tent{left for extended times}, uv rays will deteriorate nylon, or most anything really to the point you can put your finger right through it. Nylon lasts only marginally longer than canvas as far as uv light. it doesn't happen in one day, but do it all the time and your shopping for a new tent. I generally carry an 8x8 tarp with me if I think I may have to pitch in the sun, they are cheap, maybe $5 at tractor supply.

[stealth]

hm.  well that helps out a ton.  i guess i have another question then...

i'm thinking about trying one of those gigantic hammocks - like the hennessey safari model.  my wife and i together total more than the weight limit (350 pounds).  i was thinking I could go ahead and get one, use some heavy nylon thread, and just restitch every seam on the thing.  replace the lightweight nylon cord with some steel braided cable, and it should hold us both easily (i hope!).  i've heard that those hammocks will actually hold much more than what they're rated for, but i want to get one and use it for years to come.

ya think this is possible?  i mean, sure i could fall on my butt, but would this be the best way to attempt what i describe?  :)

[swjohnsey]

Ya ever try to use a hammock in the desert? Your best bet is a freestanding tent. A moderately priced tent like a Eureka Backcoutry II will last for years with no maintenance other than keeping it clean and dry.

[stealth]

well, there's a few points to that.  one, you actually can use a hammock in the desert.  you lay down the tarp first, then put the hammock over it, assuming you're carrying something big enough to stand up the ends of it.  a couple of fiberglass poles or aluminum walking sticks work fine.


more pics can be seen at http://www.speerhammocks.com/Product%20Pictures/product%20Pictures.htm

second, i'm from texas.  it's regularly a hundred degrees here.  beyond that, i've been to the desert, more than once actually.  it's freakin' hot.  i'm not really excited about going back.  i don't care if i can pitch it in the desert or not.  i'm not going to the desert - ever, if i can help it.  you guys go have a blast at moab - i'm heading north.   

the reasons i like the hammock idea are that it seems like you carry quite a bit less (no poles, no sleeping bags,) the setup and teardown is faster and easier, it's very versatile, and it can be setup dang near anywhere.  i doubt i would ever be stopping in the middle of the desert anyway.  i'm not riding dakar, i'm looking for mountains, streams, and large bodies of water.  trees generally hang out there.  :)

besides, if i ever got into a situation where i *needed* a tent and couldn't use a hammock, i'd probably just use something else like a tube tent, or makeshift shelter.  if i'm in the desert, i'd probably just sleep outside, or on the back of my bike.  i haven't tried sleeping on the klr yet, but i have many times slept on the backs of other bikes.  you get used to it.

i just don't think a tent is really what i want.  thanks for the desert point though.

so to answer my question, is there anyone who might know about reinforcing nylon?  could I simply get some heavy nylon thread and restitch all of the seams?  i know this seems like a lot of work, but that's the type of stuff i can do at my desk at work.  i'm in tech support, so i sit at my desk and talk on the phone all day.  :)

[hhugh]

I do a variation on this:

http://www.instructables.com/id/EUWKOHOI8LEUF10OO3/

My variations are lightweight parachute cord, instead of heavy rope. 
The real stuff will hold about 600 llbs. Double or treble it for heavier loads.

Hard to beat parachute silk in the summer for your bucket. Light weight too.
Any other kind of material you can find that will support you weight will work too. 

I use an aluminized heavy duty survival blanket backed with cardboard in the fall and winter. 
I live in Georgia. If you live in Alaska, search google for "4 season hammock".
Hennessy has some stuff on 4 season hammocks too, I think.
The biggest problem with cold weather is insulation from the wind/cold.
A treehouse (or a house for that matter) is hard to keep warm. An underground house is not. 
Guess you could set up wind breaks on all four sides and make a firebed.
See firebed instructions here: http://www.wwmag.net/firebed.htm 

As for 2-upping, unless you can improvise a good spreader system for your bucket ends,
it's gonna be hard to get comfortable enough to actually SLEEP this way.   
I suggest each person have their own hammock. I store offloaded gear in mine.
So 2 hammocks would be even better.

Afternoon Delights are not out of the question though. Set it up as a seat-hammock and swing away! 

Instead of sewing at your desk at work, you can spend your time rigging and adjusting your hammock.
Chair?? Boss, I don't need no stinkin office chair! 

Just don't be trying to rig and adjust the FIREBED in your office cubicle. 

Hhugh

[stealth]

haha!  ok, good advice.  thanks hhugh, that's like what i'm looking for.  i bet i can find (or make) some sort of spreader to make a relatively flat area.  either way, i mostly just wanted to try it out, but was most concerned about the weight limit initially.  I'm sure it will grow and change, and hopefully I'll love it.  :)

Thanks everybody!  great advice.  :D

[hhugh]

If it might rain.....

extra chute cord and a tarp, like in the picture you posted above.
Tie some small pieces of chute cord to each end of your hanger rope,
between the tree, and your bucket knot, and the tree and your tarp line.
These are called drip strings. They interrupt the water from following
the lines under the tarp and INTO YOUR BUCKET, keeping you dry.

Opps. I see your from Texas now that reread your post. Well, it CAN get a little
cold in Texas. Bigger problem would be a combination of high winds and rain.

Possible Solutions: oversize your tarp tent, sling your bucket high up in the apex,
                          run your drip lines to the ground and stake them with rocks or whatever.

Preservation Note:

Once I tried tying rocks to my hanging drip lines. The wind picked up enough during a storm
to get the rocks swinging so bad they ended up whacking the underside of my bucket pretty hard.
Thats annoying and can be dangerous.

Nuther Note: Don't buy the fake chute cord from Wally World or wherever. I don't know what the
weight rating is on that stuff is but it's not the real thing. Order it off the net or go to a used military
supply store and buy it. The real stuff has 6 or seven or so strands of different colored high strength
line in it. 440 paracord is what its called. Thats the real thing.

Hope this helps,
Hhugh

[swjohnsey]

Actually, it's called 550 cord. It is used as parachute shround and is rated 550 lbs tensil strength. You will occassionally find military stuff that has black flecks in the outer casing. This is only rated 375 lbs tensil strength. The difference is the number of individual cords in the guts.

Ya ever try to find two trees that were the right distance apart in the middle of the night? The Hennessey hammocks weight as much as a tent. Why not just carry a tent?

[stealth]

thanks, both of you.  yah, i've heard of the drip issue.  i read somewhere about a way to tie a bottle to it somehow, and keep the rainwater for the morning.  :)

as far as why to use a hammock over a tent:

1. i just want to try it.  i think this should be good enough for anyone else, since it's my prerogative to buy or make and use things that i want, but i'll give you a list of reasons anyway.

2. it's not the same size as a tent.  it can be packed down into a pretty tiny, lightweight package.  if i don't want to carry poles, or i'm confident it won't rain, i don't need to carry extra junk.  if i know i'm going somewhere warm, i only need the hammock itself - no rain cover, no poles, no stakes - just a hammock and some cord.

3. i wouldn't have to deal with anything on the ground, such as sticks, rocks, bugs, reptiles, etc.  this is a huge point for me, because it covers so many things.  On top of that, hammock users don't have to be concerned with uneven ground.  One of my personal pet peeves is sleeping on a slope.  Hammocks solve that problem by avoiding it completely.  :)

4. equal or better rain protection.  no water sitting or flowing under or around my tent, possibly comprimising my sleep.  nobody likes to wake up wet.  :|

5. greater comfort.  again, this is something i'll have to try out, but i'm thinking i might like it.  i've injured my back before, and i *cannot* sleep flat on my back.  being in a hammock looks like it may give me just enough curvature of spine that i can sleep comfortably, looking up at the stars (if the hammock is uncovered).

6. making and breaking camp without getting anything wet.  when setting up a hammock in the rain, simply run the tarp (or whatever you're using for rain cover) first.  then you setup the hammock.  everything stays dry.  not much better than crawling into a warm coccoon on a rainy night, except maybe actually sleeping outside, listening to the storm.  i like listening to rain, but not being in it.  :)   The next morning, if it's still raining, break camp in the opposite steps - take down hammock first, and rain cover last.  again, everything stays dry.  Theoretically, if your rain cover is big enough, you could even park your bike under it.  great place to work on it, or simply keep it dry for the morning.

7. don't have to find space in a forest big enough for your tent.  just pick a spot.  it can be pretty much anywhere, even the side of a cliff if you can set it up right.  :)

8. doubles as a chair, if set at the right height.  with care, one could even cook next to the hammock.  food and shelter both covered and cozy.

9. Leave No Trace camping, even with long term stay.  I've used a tent in long term situations before (over thirty days, more than once).  When I moved the tent, I had killed the grass.  That is not cool.  Hammock won't do that.  :)

10. How many reasons do I need to list before *you're* ok with *me* trying a hammock?  It just looks fun and easy.  What's the problem with that?

[swjohnsey]

I've tried a hammock. They suck. I woke up feelin' like I have been bent in half. On my trip to Alaska the hammock woulda worked about half the time. On my trip to Spain I am not sure it woulda worked at all. My tent packs to a roll about 5"x15" and weighs 5 lbs. How much does the hammock weigh? My tent is waterproof and bug proof (also snake proof).

I am a stealth camper. I arrive and leave when it is dark. The cardinal rule for concealment is to stay low. Swingin' between a couple of trees ain't 'xactly low profile.

I have been in situations where a hammock woulda been a plus, very dense jungle where the forrest floor was littered with all sorta deadfall. Never been in any such places on a motorcycle.

[stealth]

duly noted.  i'm buying a hammock anyway.   


I never asked for anyone's opinions on whether or not I should get or try a hammock.  I just wanted to know how to properly maintain a tent, how to reinforce nylon, and if it's worth trying.

I'll be sure to write in my diary that you think hammocks suck.  That's very important to me.

[hhugh]

Hey Stealth,

You're right. Try it. You may like it. You may not. I don't like sleeping on the ground either.
I sleep on an an air mattress at home. Can't stand a coil spring mattress.

You already have a tent from what I can tell. You have the link I posted to try a hammock on the cheap.
Camp out in the back yard first! From there you can make an informed decision without emptying your wallet.

Sleeping curvature problems:

After 4-500 miles on my KLR, I want to stretch out flat too.
Tighten up the hammock, and also adjust you body 5 to 10 degrees off axis to suit you sleeping style.
If you like to sleep on your back or stomach, this is no problem. If you're a thrasher or like to sleep on your
side, it could very well be an issue.

Some people take the kitchen sink, others just what's in their pockets.
KLR riders are known to be cheap and innovative, and are not known for following the pack.
I encourage you to experiment, and post your results on this board.

My summer rig weighs about a pound and fits in the thigh pocket of my kaki pants.
Yes I have a tent too, and sometimes I use it. Depends on where I'm going and what I'm doing
and who I'm doing it with. It all depends on distance, terrain, and the company you keep.
I've camped in Class A motorhomes, motels, and industrial garbage bags duct tapped together
with the ends cut out (tube tent). It was all very fun.

swjohnsey's description of 550 paracord is right on the mark. Don't  and type...Burrrrrpppp!

Never been to Spain or Alaska (although I'd like to) and probably never will. (job, kids,bills, etc).
But as soon as I get rich inventing The Holy Grail (inflatable: air-bed/hammock/tent/sleeping bag/
riding gear/helmet still - think George Jetson on a bike), I'm gonna sneak up on him and hide his tent
just for shocks and goggles.

 
hhugh

[stealth]

lol!

cool, thanks hhugh.  :)  Yah, I've owned and used many tents over my lifetime, but asked for maintainence just because i know there's a wealth of knowledge on this board.  i especially love hearing guys like gunny talk about living outdoors, because i know they were trained for it, then practiced it and found what *actually* works (and doesn't).

i'm thinking i'll like the hennessey simply because of the off-axis design.  normal hammocks do suck - your spine curves into it.  central american hammocks, however, do not suck.  they rule, from what i hear, and i'm dying to try one.  :D  I've got a list of other gear to get first (making a huge order tomorrow, in fact,) but i am hoping to get one soon.  it would be so much nicer than sleeping on the ground.  :)

anyway, thanks again.  i will try it, and if i do hate it, i'll just ebay it.  they seem to be doing relatively well there.  i guess i just get excited about trying something new.  adventure is fun.  :)

[gunny]

the hennesey is a great piece of kit, it can be used on the ground as well as between the trees etc, I ordered one for my trip to labrador next summer, expensive for a hammock, you bet, but your getting what you pay for. I've seen a lot of guys both in and out of the Corps cheap out on gear and paid the price by getting bit up, rained on and just made plain miserable. I get the good stuff for one reason only, it stinks to get wet. After the Marine corps, a swore I wouldn't get wet again unless I had to, just ask Mrs Gunny if I'll leave the house in a rain storm to go to a place like the mall with her, aint gonna happen  now if I were going to the gun shop .... I throw on the north face shell and trudge on. Thats something else to think about, you want the tent, but what are ya gonna wear in camp ? there are a lot of good cheap sets of rain gear you can get, it doesn't have to be a $350 northface shell, but do get something that breathes, your best bang for the buck, a used military surplus ECWS jacket and pants, might set you back $100 for jacket and pants, but your not gonna get wet wearing them and they breath so you don't sweat your tukus off. 

it all boils down to the 7 P principle. get the best you can afford and have fun.

[stealth]

first, i really don't know how i missed your post, gunny.  i thought i had this thread on "notify", but i guess i missed it...   :p

second, gunny, thanks for your input.  with your training and experience, i really value what you have to say.  thanks.

third, what the hell is the 7 P principle?

[gunny]

  7 P Principle

"Prior Proper Planning, Prevents Pee Poor Performance"

Feel free to replace a word with something just a bit more colorful 

[stealth]

it all boils down to the 7 P principle. get the best you can afford and have fun.

ok, now that i understand it, that just seems like a good rule for life.  prepare well, get the best you can, and have fun.   

[gunny]

oh, and to answer your one question, you really don't need to reinforce the stitching on a modern tent, the thread they use is some pretty durable stuff. If you want to feel safer, just get a spool of spider wire {fishing line} and a big needle and put it in your gear bag.

[stealth]

even if the weight exceeds the limit?  the safari *claims* max weight of 350.  My wife and I combined will be closer to 400.  I've heard their hammocks can hold much more than they're rated for...  have you had any experience going over the weight limit?

[gunny]

hammocks will have a load limit, maybe a 20% fudge factor in what they can hold. Give hennesey a call, they may have exactly what you need. The stitching they use is extremely strong, generally stronger than the material itself. The limiting factor is the nylon they use. you may be better served by getting 2 hammocks, both for room and comfort. I don't have any experience with the hennesey hammocks so I can't really say how comfortable they would be with 2 people in one. I would think if you were to reinforce the stitching, you would need to sew some runners down the material to distribute the load over a wider area, since this would be on the underside of the hammock, it wouldn't affect the water proof top at all. If you had a good sewing machine you could go to a junk yard and cut a few seat belts out to use as the backing. Use good upholstery thread. The best way to add the material would be in a sunburst pattern radiating out from the point your working on.

I've thought about trying to make my own hammock, the material is cheap in bulk for nylon. My personal touch would be running several strips of web along the full length of the hammock to help distribute the load over it's whole length. You can get coated nylon for a fly, it costs a bit more, but I think if you wanted to invest the time it could be done fairly cheaply, maybe less than $50 for the whole thing. The issue you may encounter with a hennesey with 2 people in it, I'm not positive, but I think in those you sleep "across" the hammock and not inline with it. That could make you and yours a lot closer than you want to be after a hard day on the road. Thats just my opinion, I haven't actually seen one of them.

[stealth]

Alright, sweet.  :D

Man, that really helps out a lot.  I guess what it really comes down to though is, I can call Hennessy and see if they say anything.  Otherwise:

1. buy hammock.
2. try hammock out.
3. enjoy.   

i might try the seat belt idea.  man, that's a good one.  yah, you do sleep across it, at 10-20 degree angle.  I've heard that you sleep *really* close if there's two in a hammock, but I'm cool with that.  Either way, I guess I just need to stop talking about it and get it done.  thanks again, g.

[zane121]

Hey I have a Hennesey and love it.  Used it all over to include a real desert.  Pull it tight and you can sleep pretty comfortable.  I dont think the weight will be an issue but the size is not made for two folks in it.  I'll see if I have a digital photo of our last trip in the mountains.